Thanks, I also enjoyed our discussion. It’s not often this topic can be carried out without a fight.

Thanks for your concern too. I’d be very concerned if I lived around the area, but I’m all the way down in Okinawa. When I post from work, it posts with US flag, probably because my company leases the line from US company. There’s not much to worry here, it’s too far from fukushima and wind blows toward the US west coast. We ceased buying fruits and vegetables from that area, but still have to worry about mislabeling that’s going on around here.

Thanks again for the great conversation and kind words.

Thank You for this lenghty conversation, I enjoyed it, I do respect your standpoint.
Another thing I wanted to mention is that I see you go back and forth to Japan, its not my bussiness but I would be more carefull with the radiation there, I mean they say its all safe but they did the same at chernobyl and Fukushima released about a 100times more radiation than Chernobyl sofar, Chernobyl has a bodycount of about a million people +birth defects 27 years after the incident a combined EU team is just building a second giant high tech sarchophag around it with EU funding as we speak, the Russians could stabilize the damn thing also at a cost of thousands of lifes, yet the japanese failed to do so and the seals and polar bears on the west coast and Alaska are already showing a heavy case of radiation sickness, so long story short, I wouldnt go there to often, buy a geiger counter, and some quality iodine protection, thats not fearmongering thats reality unfortunately, just a friendly advice, Im looking forward to our next conversation:)Bye.

“We are running in circles you reformulate your statements without giving real answers to my points”

You’re right about us running in circles. Like you said, yours is love, which can’t be explained, proven and does not required to be logical. I refuse to believe anything we have not observed. I admit there are more people like you on earth, whom does not need facts to believe in things, a good story is all they need to make up their minds about the life and god. I don’t have any problem with this unless they start making decision for general public, or force their beliefs on everyone else.

Just like you, I also don’t how it all started. But saying that there must be an intelligent designer behind all this is, well, bit shortsighted. Once we believe that, we must not think much about who created the creator, because there can’t be any logical explanation. If we’re not allowed to think about creation of a creator, why should we be able to explain creation of the whole thing? What caused the big bang? What was there before the big bang? Just because I can’t explain it, I wouldn’t explain it away by just inserting an intelligent designer to the picture. If I did, I would also need to explain is inner workings and beginning. Can you? Even begin to think about creation of god? Out of a total void? If it’s that much unlikely for complex protein to be made by coincidence, what would be the chances of god appearing in void by coincidence?

You feel the presence god in your heart and it tells your brain to obey this feeling. I need to find him in logic and reasoning to believe its presence. That’s the end of this discussion. I can’t prove non existence of mystical being, just like you can’t explain its presence by science and logic.

Sorry I have to correct myself I made an error, the chances of a random complex protein molecule is not 1:200billion, there are two sources one claim 10squared 300 the other 10 squared 40 so thats a lot of zeros, thats probably more than winning all the lotteries in history in a row, good luck with that.

One more thing you say you dont believe in God ok you have every right to do so its free will, but how do you explain the infinite energy and complexity that was started with the Big Bang, how can you believe that such a complex system is by random chance,and from what source? French scientists in the 80’s made a calculation about whats the chance that a few amino acids can make up a complex protein by incident, they got to the conclusion that its about 1:200billion thats like winning the lottery 4 times in a row, and we are still at a protein not a life form, reformulated the chances that a single protein can create itself by random chance is the same as a tornado sweeping through a junkyard leaving behind a working passanger jet ready for lift off.

The evidence is all around as we just have to look, fine tuned infinite Universe with all its energy, time-space continuum, complex physical and chemical laws,life forms,that are interdependent yet still working, what are the chances that all that is random, and that the Universe came from thin air err I mean thin nothing?
The answer is zero.

We are running in circles you reformulate your statements without giving real answers to my points, the Universe is only chaotic at first sight when you dont recognize how its built up, its pretty harmonic and fine tuned, also a certain uncertanity is a must as a perfect Universe you suggest would result in a static system without any change now that would probably defeat the very purpose of its function.

“The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist”

Like I said the elite believes in the devil and behaves accordingly, its primary goal is to destroy Humanity yet we are still here meaning that we havent lost, the war is ongoing.
Have you ever observed love? can you prove your love to somebody? I mean with rock solid evidence, you cant, but you still belive in it, have you ever seen a black hole or the bing bang, the same story, our science ends at the event horizon meaning you cant prove it a 100% but the chances are good that they are true, I hope you see where am I going.

I still belive in the raw diamond theory at least as one of the reasons God created the Universe, you say He created the elite, no He didnt, the devil gave power to them and the people let them run amok, thats free will,would you like if there would be no elite but also you would be restricted in your free will I think 99% of the people would want free will thats in our nature, what you doing with it is your responsibility and not God’s, peope revolt against God with free will or without it.

“Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.” -Friedrich Schiller

“Universe is fine tuned why do you think matter doesnt falls abart instantly or the Universe just blows up or tiers itself apart? Who designed the fondumental priciples of physical and chemical laws?”

Could it be any other way? I mean, we wouldn’t be able to live in a universe that matter can fall apart. But we’re not living in a universe with perfect harmony either. It’s more chaotic than harmonious. It’s full of faults and imperfections. This is another proof that all mighty god should have done a better work. Without science, we’d be dead many times over. It’s ironic to say, the only power we have against god’s imperfect world is science. If this world really is a product of god, I see absolultely no reason that we should believe its presence, or should we need to. I see no reason to be thankfull either. I mean, if you’re not here, you’re not here. You’re not looking down from heaven and wish you were here.

Another problem with god that it comes with devil. Now if you believe god, you must also familiarize yourself with concept of devil. Which I believe is dangerous. What utter nonsense is believing the devil is. I mean, you’re telling me to not to confuse god with religion, but what about all this devil stuff? How can you not believe in religion but still acknowledge the existance of devil?

These are all stories my friend, not to be taken literally. Let the god be the power of good that ligts in the sky, but don’t believe it actually exist. It can look after you, help you find a job, save you from an earthquake. It will never do these things, same reasons that you won’t see superman in the sky tomorrow. Or Spiderman won’t pull you out of burning house. These things are imaginary things we make up. And only way to distinguish imaginary from real is to be able to observe it. We have invented science for this reason alone, too many mouths speaking about things that they have no proff of. Someone needed to say, we can only believe things we can observe, measure and replicate. Rest belongs to the same category, stories & myths.

About Elites, very good example of god’s imperfection. If you were the creator, would you let your creations to be sucked dry by couple devil operated scums? Why ol why would you let devil and its earthly operators to win? They have been winning throughout the history and they are still winning. We are all working slaved under them. How can I thank god for bringing me to this evil hell hole? to be the slaves of wealthy few? What is my purpose, revolting them and getting killed? or provide them my labor and be happy with the bone I’m thrown.

You see, there’s no logic to it. As I first said, if there’s a god, I will have some hard questions for him. He will wish that he hadn’t created me.

Actually there are more scientists that believe in God than you would think its just that they dont get too much screen time because most the Universities and the “lame stream media” are run and controlled by the same interest groups.

“Religion without science is blind, science without religion is lame” – Albert Einstein

Like is said free will, the Universe is fine tuned why do you think matter doesnt falls abart instantly or the Universe just blows up or tiers itself apart? Who designed the fondumental priciples of physical and chemical laws? Do you know how much computing power you need just to simulate one tiny protein molecule in an complex enviroment, You need super computers to run simulations 24\7 for weeks or months and thats just a basic building block of life, yet its all in perfect harmony.
Your probelm is that you are too grounded, like I said in my earlier comment you think along a linear path cause-causality or past-present-future, what makes you think that God has to obey rules in our Universe?
I say the being an atheist is rather full of plot holes it doesnt make the story sound right, and thats why the globalist elite propagates atheism, is it a coincidence that you cant even celebrate Christmas now at schools in the US., thats just one example like I said I believe in faith instead of religion but when everything that has a value is systematically destroyed and swapped with fake liberal probaganda, where 12 years olds can have abortions right at school by planned parenthood in secret without any parental consent I have to wonder, I repeat what I said you might not believe in God but the elite does believe and serves the devil, research it, until you people dont get the full story you can wait for your change till ethernity, similary to Winston in 1984 who waited for a change that the proles will rise up, well good luck with that, it didnt work out for poor Winston too well did it?

I need to be believing god to be angry at him, which if I did, I would be, but I don’t. God simply can’t exist, no scientist can explain something coming out of nothing, or something which has no beginning. You keep on saying study physics, but if that did it, most scientist would believe in god. I don’t think that’s the case. I also don’t think it has anything to do with believing god. Simple man sees the bug and is sure only god could have created something this complicated. If god is just a creator and not caring about what happens to his creations, it also should not need believing. Should not care what we do. If he wanted to be sure his creations are advancing, he could have done bit more micromanaging.

By not believing god, I’m only saying we are all we got. How we treat earth and each other, decides what kind of species we are. Mamal, or a virus.

You seem to be angry at humans, especially the ones that got the control of the biggest financial institutes. I share your concern, but I blame the system that allows them to do what they want. You may say they control the system, but they can only do that as long as people are willing to play their games. I believe the day will come that most people will be aware of their schemes and revolt peacefully. Their games will be uncovered. Until that day comes, I only blame the collective awareness of humans. As a large group, we don’t act so intelligently.

Anyways, I’m glad the god theory is doing it for you, but to me, it has too many holes.

No problem.
You sound like if you were angry at God, sure a lot of very bad stuff happens here but is it really God’s fault? I dont think so, Humans always want to be free and independent we want our free will at all cost thats what makes as Human, so God gave what we wanted all the evil doings are done by Humans really bad people who gave into evil for power they have their free will we have it too,

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”

Also you confuse religion with faith, you dont have to be part of any organized religion to belive in God our Creator.

When I spoke about bad guys I wasnt referring to ordenary criminals I was referring to people who rule the world and their servants, I agree that most the criminals (except psychopats who like to kill and torture) became criminals because of a dysfunctional sociaty and artificially created scarcity by the elite globalists.
So every man has free will and you cant be luke warm there is good and evil if you dont pick a side they will pick you.

Dont be angry at God instead try to trust in God and dont give into evil, look at where abandoning God lead us in the XX.th century and now in the XXI.st ,genocide, democide, hundreds of millions died in wars than hundreds of millions died because of artifical scarcity and diseases that could be cured,and hundreds of millions of abortion, you might not belive in God but the globalist elite believes in the devil research its in plain sight.
If you dont believe in God or your heart and soul what are you?a biorobot thats how the elite sees you and every Human on the planet your are just a battery to be sucked dry and thrown away, but we are greater than the summ of our parts thats where faith starts, and thats where you start to know the real value of Human life.
Trust me if you would really comprehend the complexity of the Universe you wouldnt say things like you did, study it and you will see that there are more things than you first thought.

Thanks for trying to explain, I really do appreciate it.

You see though, I feel the very opposite of your first sentence. Only the people, who doesn’t know how the universe and life forms work can explain it away by saying, “god it it”. To me, mathematical possibility of god creating itself and then creating a universe, with us in it, is extremely small too. I can’t see the evidences you mention that supports gods existence. Opposite to that, I can see lots of evidence that there is no god.

I can’t argue with what you said on education, true, but I don’t think I’m the product of the education I received. I educated myself, especially on this subject. It started with reading the localised version of Kuran. It made no sense what so ever. It didn’t take long to realize all Abrahamic religions were the same, nonsense. Then came the natural realization, even god existed in some remote possibility, he surely did not care what happens to his creations, because he also created the things that kills us, or makes our lives a living hell. I could have done a better job, so could most people.

Do we really have to go through the challenges we face today, to become a jewel? I mean, what lesson should we learn from getting a cancer? Or what kind of lesson a husband learn when her wife, day before her delivery get a lightning in the head and die? It happened to amish woman sometime ago. How can a god do this to his most beloved creation? How can he still be my god if he does this to his creation?

I can’t argue with any of the assumptions you make about the universe, sure, anything is possible. I see more evidence that our masters are simply other beings, created us for some kind of test purposes, because they can make mistakes. They can leave us in this rock to see how we evolve, not caring an inch of what happens to us. Other beings can do this, but all mighty god should not. And if he does, he is not my god.

One last thing, the bad guys you say, I don’t think they born bad. I think the environment they live in makes them bad. How can they be punished when it is so much more difficult for them to be good, then the guy born with silver spoon in his mouth? How can same rules apply to both of them? Just not fair is it?

One step at a time, like I said only people who doesnt know how the Universe and life forms work or how they are built up can suggest a random creation without a creator and any source, study how things work, how complex they are and whats the mathematical possibility that its random without God, the answer is zero a system that complex cant be random its a fact and you will see that only God could create such a complex system wich is fine tuned from the smallest block and works in harmony at least most the time.

You are the victim of your education system its all have been taken over by interest groups, it would be wise to question it sometimes and not blindly believe in it just because they said so, who funds Universities? who are behind govts? who rules state owned education? You see 90+% of private and state education are owned by the same interest groups and why is that so? Think about it.
There are a lot more evidence that there is a God than the oppoiste.
Who created the Creator? Who knows, your think process could be faulty here because you use your 1 dimensional linear time cause-causality logic wich can be bent even in our Universe like in case of the quantum tunelling effect if it can be bent here what is possible outside of our Universe?, the Universe could serve multiple purposes, why is it called a Universe since ancient times? is it a school for raw diamonds to became jewels? Is it to test whom You really serve inside your heart?God or the devil? is it a simulation for some unkown purpose? or something else? maybe its all true its probably infinite for us, keep thinking and dont try to be trendy look at history and see whom trendies always sided with? Yupp the bad guys.
Cheers.

Well, where did god come from? Who created the creator? It created itself? It comes meaningless to me that something can create itself. If it has the power to create itself, it shouldn’t need to, it’s already there. I read your post with excitement until you brought god into it. O mighty god, why ol why couldn’t you create a better world for us? Why did you create mosquitos and deseases? How can a child born blind believe you, or why 5 million child dies before they reach 5 years old. What did they do to you? Why the hell would you send three conflicting religioins and favor some people over others? How can you burn your creations because they didn’t turn out what you expected them to be? I have some serious questions to ask you if we meet.

I loved it! To me it expresses what those few spiritual masters on earth in history (and presently) knew and know to be true. Namely, that what is appearing on earth and in the world and in the self, is an effect of a much greater reality of being.

In 10,000 years what will our understanding be?

Which answer is already known.

Its enough to look at photons they are zero dimensional particles with zero mass and zero charge they are an illusion a virtual particle yet they can interact with physical matter in our Universe, and it keeps us alive, so whats really light how can it affect matter if its only an illusion?How big is the Universe is it infinite is it 92billion lightyears? we know its bigger than 13 billion because space time inflates faster than the speed of light and because space time is not matter but pure energy it doesnt contradict Einsteins theory of realitvity, for me its just another evidence of God’s existenz, simple as that.
The Universe is very complex maybe infinite, at least for us, yet its fine tuned from the smallest subatomic level to the biggest macro cosmos level, where did the energy come from at the start it must had a source and an intelligence, every atheist is an idiot who doesnt know shit about how the Universe and life forms work, or just a crypto satanist who masks himself as an atheist, wake up people, and protect Life in all forms, dont give in to evil no matter what.